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August 18, 2008Posted on 08/18/2008 in Extras
Expert commentators
From Ravikiran Dinakar, India
Richie Benaud. Michael Holding. Geoffrey Boycott. Tony Greig. Ian Chappell. David Gower. Ian Bishop. All of these cricketers have something in common. Apart from the fact that they gave many cricketers sleepless nights (but Geoffrey the great allowed them to sleep through the morning while batting), they all wield the microphone as best as anyone ever did. They know how and when to talk. More importantly, they know when not to talk. And that, I believe is the essence of commentary.
Asians are a different breed of commentators. Most of them, with a few notable exceptions, comment from the heart. The image of Zaheer Khan and Mohammad Kaif scampering through for a single in that far-too-famous-for-its-own-good Natwest Final 326 chase is etched in memory for most of us. And the sounds associated with that image are Ravi Shastri's vociferous and passionate "India have Won!!". Although what followed was an image every Indian would secretly cherish and openly admit to be highly undiplomatic and tactless.
And then there is the non-cricketer Harsha Bhogle. Thank God , he did not play cricket. How else would we have had his layman's sense of observation and admiration for all things cricket, warts and all. His evolution as a commentator is fascinating. He started out as a cricket presenter, merely a mouthpiece and a show-man whose job it was to tell the millions that he had with him experts and then the camera moves on. But now he is an expert in his own right. He epitomizes the expert in every Indian viewer. Flawed, maybe, but we always have an opinion.
There are plenty more - Sanjay Majrekar, as astute and Tendulkar-loving as ever, Sunil Gavaskar, the Santa Claus (Ho Ho Ho! that's a good shot!), Arun Lal, analyzing whether the toe kissed the boundary line only to find to his dismay that the next over has already been bowled (but the man has a hearty laugh about it every time), Ranjit Fernando, he spawned a hate blog, enough said.
Commentary is as much a part of cricket as batting or bowling is(We, Indians, don't ever consider fielding). The joy of watching cricket is accentuated to a great degree by the right words being said about it. In that regard, the Sky Sports commentary team does a wonderful job. With David Lloyd providing the much needed frivolity and eccentricity (If Nathan Astle can bowl, my behind is a fire-engine), Michael Atherton and David Gower going at each other and Nasser Hussain passionately fighting with Michael Holding over switch-hitting, it was all a delight to watch. Let the commentators keep coming.
Honestly, who edits these blogs? "as best as anyone ever did", "Geoffrey the great", "comment from the heart" etc. I can understand preserving style, originality and tone but is it too much to ask for an acceptable standard of grammar?
Regarding "Asian" commentary, the vast majority are unprofessional, selected solely for their continued idolization. Most of the time they rely on bandied cliches and when all else fails they revert to stirring up the self-persecution complex. Rather than add value by imparting knowledge gained from experience they describe the scene as if viewers hadn't seen it. Most can't get through a sentence with butchering the English language though they take great pains to mimic accents. I don't know what training they undergo (if any) but it doesn't seem to be any good. As for tweety bird Bhogle, Slats took the mickey out of his commentary in the last series. Wish I'd seen that series on Nine, there's no way it could have been more biased than ESPN-Star.
AJAX, Aren't we all biased when it comes to sports? And continued idolization? They are paid to do that. Nine is just as bad. Mark Nicholas with his 'Oh! That is so powerful!' or Bill Lawry who has an orgasm everytime someone hits a boundary.
I agree there must be some kind of a training to do commentary but that would mostly be on how-to's in front of the camera rather than content.
And you yourself made mistakes in that comment. But i shall work on my grammar.
"...training to do commentary but that would mostly be on how-to's in front of the camera" WRONG!!! They're commentating first, seen on camera second.
I can see so much that can be provided in training. For starters if they are going to commentate in English, they can take a few English classes (get over your egos, you can't speak for nuts). They can learn how to provide insight, this isn't radio. If the ball goes straight to the fielder, I can see this, I don't need to hear some ex-great say "Straight to the fielder, stopped and thrown to the keeper." He can probably describe strategy and tactics rather than struggle to translate the exact sequence of events into English from his native language. They can learn to stop parroting hackneyed cliches. They can learn to be responsible on air, not incite hatred, allege racism and cheating.
I didn't say Channel Nine wasn't biased, I just said there was no way there could have been worse than ESPN-STAR (read Gavaskar, Bhogle and Shastri).
The coverage of the recent Ind-Australia series was a complete media fiasco. I agree the media played a huge part in completely blowing the issue out of proportions. But why are you intent on judging the coverage based on one series? Their coverage of the Ind-England series was excellent. And you can't always talk about the tactics and strategy. What tactic is involved in throwing a ball straight back to the keeper. But then again i would keep my mouth shut if i were a commentator, rather than say those exact words.
And if you read carefully enough, no where am i saying the commentary is the best. And I did not give that title!
"learn to stop parroting hackneyed cliches"
"not incite hatred, allege racism and cheating"-"Regarding "Asian" commentary, the vast majority are unprofessional, selected solely for their continued idolization"
hmmm...Is this what they call as irony in non-Asian English?
Ajax certainly seem to think that being born in an English speaking country makes him naturally better than Asians, no matter how qualified they are. True that Shastri's commentary lacks insight,but to call his English poor is utter tripe. Totally baseless slander, speaking mildly. Being born in England/Aus/NZ does not automatically make one a better English speaker than the rest. And, speaking better English does not make better commentary.
As for accent,India has more English speakers than the combined strength of UK,Aus and NZ. And please stop insisting that India use British accents. It is Indian English, not British English. Learn to live with that.
"AJAX" - One Advice to you and read my comment carefully before you comment. "If you start ripping this article apart on the basis of regional and racial bias, then the collective wrath of the region (read Asia) will hit you. You are entitled to your opinion but there is a polite way to put it across. Do not delude yourself into thinking that you are a better english speaker and orator, just cos' you are born an english speaking native. Learn to respect other cultures.
Im an avid cricket fan living in America. Now lemme , or for your liking, let me, impart some knowledge on you. Commentary is as much a method of attracting audiences as covering the cricket match. Even though Ravi Shastri or Harsha Bhogle might not have enough insight on the game, they certainly know how to attract audience and maintain their interests in the cricket match. This is something that 9 sports is incapable of doing.
I have many Australian and other caucasian English speaking, cricket loving friends who have continuously voiced their opinions on the lack of appeal from the 9 crew. To further add salt to your wounds, my friends made it clear that altough the espn-star crew might have its downsides, they certainly make up for it by covering the game of cricket in an interesting and appealing manner for a regular cricket fan.
My fav. line is one from an Pak cricketer turned commentator.
"He has hit the ball BETWEEN THE GAPS!"
im pretty sure the original post was regarding to the fact that the sky sports commentary team is better than their asian counterparts. i dont see where channel nine comes in here. why is everyone talking bout channel nine. but i do have to say channel nine still has a better team than their asian counterparts. the indians commentators bore the sh*t out of me with their senseless rambling and cliche banter. and their annoying accents. i much rather prefer listening to the aussie domestic season commentators cause they actually bother to teach you stuff and show you tactics instead of telling me what i already know. wasim akram is the only asian commentator that actually bothers giving advice and tactics on air. rest are useless and i know as i write this im gonna get a lot of flack from u indians. listen mate its not how gramatically correct your english is. its how you use it . fuck all u indian fucks i hate every single lsast one of you hahahahahahahaha
I disagree with your assessment of Asian commentators in general. I do not consider speaking polished english the only criteria for good commentary, but accuracy and avoiding cliched expressions certainly are. When is the last time Ravi Shastri described a powerful boundary hit as anything other than a "tracer bullet"? When is the last time Arun Lal could stop himself from speaking about the flora and fauna of Sri Lanka (during the current series)? How can you say that these folks are as acceptable as Holding or Benaud? I agree that Gavaskar and Bhogle are excellent commentators but people like Arun Lal, LS and Ranjit F are a deterrant to cricket listening public. And lastly, Sanjay Manjrekar is anything but Tendulkar loving. In fact, he created an issue a few years ago when he questioned Tendulkar's continued presence in the Indian team.
I generally have nothing against Asian commentators; It's just that sometimes they just do not know when to stop talking. Prime examples include Laxman Sivaramakrishnan. Whenever he starts talking I mute the TV so I can watch the action in peace without his continuous rambling. Mind you, I've got nothing against the their English skills.
"wasim akram is the only asian commentator that actually bothers giving advice and tactics on air"
Have you heard commentators before on air?
"rest are useless and i know as i write this im gonna get a lot of flack from u indians"
It's flak! you insufferable Nincompoop! Stop displaying your ignorance and save us!
Ah dear, all it took was a blog.
In regards to this 'Who's got the best commentators' debate, there are only a handful I'd call impartial to a debate (Benaud, Holding, Manjrekar, Chappell etc). The majority of commentators are hired for their TV audience appeal. Why do you think Mark Nicholas got hired by Nine? To bring race into a debate about commentators is short-sighted, and missing the point completely.
Some people need to remember that cricket is a game, not life and death.
"Ah dear, all it took was a blog."
And a little vague writing from me. Not to mention the title given.
My intent was not to bring the "best commentator" into question. I just wanted to celebrate the colourful Asian commentators. Colourful, not necessarily the best. But alas!
While I hope that the majority of people who read my comments will understand them, it is quite clear that a few retards have been offended by them (not that I have ever bothered about offending anyone or will continue to be bothered by it), to those morons who "warn" me or "rub salt" please take a look at Dirk Nannes's quote on Karthik's sledging, it applies to you too.
Given how polarized people are becoming today and that I have no intention in contributing to that, I'm going to tell you all where I'm coming from.
I actually have respect for Dinakar for his responses and liked portions of his blog. I was not picking on his English but rather Cricinfo's editing. I brought up the English skills of the commentators because I believe you should bring professionalism to the commentary box. So you had a great career, but its over, this is your next job, get over your ego and try doing it well, earn the respect of the people who you are being paid to entertain. (cont)...
...(cont) The commentary on both sides, if a few of my mates are correct, was disgusting for the Aus-Ind Series. I only heard ESPN-Star's version, and Gavaskar's monologue on Benson taking Ponting's word and Shastri's threat at the end of the series ("Wait till they come home for the IPL, we'll see then...") were petty and uncalled for.
I do not have a bias against "Asian" commentators, I actually can't stand quite a few others from Mark Nicholas, Kepler Wessels, Damien Flemming, Ian Healy and many more, but none more than Ian Smith. Ian Smith speaks as though his nose is perpetually pinched and he's always whining, he would probably give Bill Lawry a run for his money as the most biased commentator outside the subcontinent.
You need to get over this self persecution complex. Why was Dean Jones reprimanded so heavily for his remark, while Akram ("I don't like the ICC because it is run by all the (derogatory term for "whites")") asked with mock surprise "Did I say anything wrong?"
'And a little vague writing from me. Not to mention the title given.
My intent was not to bring the "best commentator" into question. I just wanted to celebrate the colourful Asian commentators. Colourful, not necessarily the best. But alas! '
It happens. A problem with writing is that two people of good intention can look at a piece and come to dramatically opposite opinions.
AJAX, I concede your point about the India-Australia series. Some of the media coverage was disgraceful. It works both sides of the coin though. I can't actually recall a series in which Tony Grieg backed Australia (Always the opposition with Tony, that's why he always gets booed when he steps on a ground). Bias is an unfortuante part of commentary, but you've got to expect it. Everyone privately (and publically) wants their team to win.
Commentary will be biased. Always. I don't think it is possible to do away with that. Commentators like Richie Benaud happen everyday.
"Everyone privately (and publically) wants their team to win."
Exactly!
And AJAX, i don't think anyone differs here on the opinion that the coverage of Ind-Aus was deplorable. I'm of the opinion that the Ind-Aus series was a special case. Played under a high degree of unrest and emotional stupidity. I will not accept ESPN-STAR being decried just on the basis of that series. Hopefully they have learnt their lesson.
Ravi Shastri and Harsha Bhogle are fine commentators if you ask me. And Wasim Akram. Sorry. He was the greatest bowler to have held the ball but his commentary is horrendous! That is why i did not include him.
Ok, bragging Englishman, lets just say that neither is the English language owned by a single nation nor you people should think yourself as the "Knights" for defending its "integrity". Rather you should sleep happlily at night thinking that most people in the world learn this language and made it unofficially the official language in Cricket. Think about an India-Pakistan game, the commentary can be done in Hindi/Urdu rather than English, and it would be easier for many spectators to understand. But for the sake of "one common platform", commentary is being done in English. Obviously a non-native commentator will not be as fluent as a native speaker, and obviously this non-native commentator will have some culturally different elements in his English, but that should not cause people like you to make fun of him. Becuase we can speak in other languages that you wont understand.
So please shut up and let the commentators do their job! Doing this can make you a decent person.
I'm from India but I have no qualms in saying there isn't a single commentator from the subcontinent right now who offers any insight into the game. I don't care about how correct their english is, I can deal with the occasional mistakes as long as they're making a solid point. They haven't been hired as orators, they've been hired as cricket experts. You don't see people making fun of Ruud Guilt or Marcel Desailly when they talk football, because they're supposed to speak the language of football.
Cricinfo recently had a poll on the best commentators and it was shameful that someone like Ravi Shastri made the cut. Him and Gavaskar are the most biased commentators around. Someone tell Sunny to get over his inferiority complex. In my opinion, the best commentators in the world are Ian Chappell, Richie Benaud, Michael Holding, Mark Taylor and Michael Atherton.
Coming to India's tour of Down Under, I saw the series on ESPNSTAR as well as Channel 9 and both channels were pandering to their audience. While there were Sunny and Shastri on one side, Channel 9 had Lawrie and Healy.
Can anyone tell me where are the results of the poll on the best commentators
As an aside, when India toured England last year, the hosts were 3-1 ahead in the seven-match ODI series. Ravi Shastri told Cricinfo in the pre-match podcast/transcript: "I will stick my neck out and say England are favourites to win the series." What insight!
I am neither a fan of South Africa and nor of South Africa and I do not hate either of these two teams. But, what Ian Chappel said about the third day of cricket in MCG caught my attention. He told that the third day of cricket in MCG is the weirdest day in test cricket. I believe he is absolutely wrong and these type of people and comments are making cricket less appreciable game in the world. It is in fact a wonderful display of test cricket. Does the fact that the Australian bowlers could not take wickets make a day weirdest? Absolutely not. he should have told that is for Australia, but not the weirdest day as a whole. There are so many times that we saw less than 200 runs in a day in test cricket.Ian Chappel is absolutely bad commentator and I believe Cricinfo should seriously consider not to take his opinion in the upcoming days.
Ajax,
Shut your trap. Aussie commentators?!! Lawry thinks they can win with less than 4 runs for SA to win with 4 wickets in hand!! This type of commentry is not limited to cricket - just listen to them in Tennis -- You would be left wondering if anyone other than Dokic is worth playing the game!
And if you saw the post match interview of Alicia Mollic, can anything be less uncivilsed? Aussies have lost everything in everything. The other day Rove made a crude joke about India and Chandrayaan. He was pitifully unaware of the futuristic possibilities of that mission. Can't blame him! Poor chap from the First World. That is the level of their knowledge!!
We do not watch cricket on TV to play it.most people watch it for sure passion and enjoyment.any commentator is great if he is capable of generating huge level of interest in the viewer.on this front i would love to listen Ravi shastri.tony greig.david lloyd breed of commentators on any day ahead of guys like ian chappel,artherton,holding....Also ,those who say Ravi shastri does not have an insight of the game,it is a shame that we are listening these JOKERS.People like shastri,greg.lloyd,heysman are complete commentary packages.