I TOTALLY AGREES THAT ITS NOT IMPORTANT TO TURN A BALL MILES BUT TO PITCH IT IN THE RIGHT AREA IS WHAT EVERY GOOD SPINNER SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR.MUHAMMAD HAFEEZ IS ANOTHER SPINNER WHO MAY NOT TURNING THE BALL MILES BUT IN LAST 1.5YEARS HE IS ONE OF THE SUCCESSFUL BOWLERS FOR PAKISTAN.SAEED AJMAL IS ALSO NOT BIG SPINNER OF THE BALL BUT STILL HE TROUBLES SRT IN THE SEMIFINAL OF THE WC2011 AND AT LAST TAKES HIS WICKET.HIS DOOSRA IS STILL A MYSTRY BALL FOR MANY BATSMAN OF THE WORLD

Amazing Article . Very great Examples Given like kumble & vettori for the spinners who don't know how to spin . It's 100 % true that no pitch in the world helps spinners . For bowlers , to be accurate in line-length is necessary not turning the ball .

It is pertinent to note Kumble's views on his bowling. He felt his job was to take wickets and it did not matter how he did. While darters are boring, men with variations should be encouraged even if they hardly spin the ball. Yuvi in ODIs is a much more canny bowler now a days. He has a few tricks up his sleeve. Afridi's variations in ODIs are as interesting to watch as Swanny's rip.

Hey Matt, did you realize that this is an "amazing article"? I TOTALLY AGREES, MAN.

I think the pertinent comment made above is that darters are boring but bowlers with variations should be encouraged. A spinner's job is to deceive or outwit the batsman, which Kumble did to great effect. Flight and variation (with accuracy) are ways of doing this. Firing it in is not. That is the difference between a class spinner such as Vettori and some of the others mentioned above.

Devendra Bishoo looks great when he lets a leg break rip.

I wrote a blog about spin bowlers at the world cup might be worth a look at for some interesting stats about the current crop of spinners in world cricket. Check it out here http://middleandleg.blogspot.com/

I think quoting the 2011 World Cup and 20/20 tends to skew the argument a little. Everyone was turning the ball at the 2011 World Cup (sometimes even from the 1st over!) which takes out the 'non-turner' argument straight away, if anything the darts that were being bowled allied with the spin on offer turned even part timers like Yuvi into world beaters. As a spinner, in 20/20, you're after batsmen to mishit the ball which is easier to achieve via varied flight rather than giving the ball a rip.

If anything this all points back to a deterioration in batsmen's technique where power has overcome skill.

Pretty sure sydney helps the spinners...

I slightly agree with your article but the point is, spinning the ball is a huge asset. When you compare the three recently retired spin kings Kumble is the one who comes third in most debates. They all have amazing control and accuracy. All three also have great subtle variations. Flight, drift, speed and bounce are used by all of them. So what's the main difference? Why do Warne and Murali have better averages? The main difference is the amount of spin. Vettori's skills are similar to Kumble

You can make a similar argument for fast bowlers too. You don't need swing, seam or pace just accuracy. Only great bowler with these characteristics was McGrath. But he still had the other features during his early days.

Also the WC point isn't very strong. It was a subcontinental WC so lesser tweakers can still make it spin enough for a wicket or make the batsman defend. Ripping the ball is actually more important on bare surfaces which is why Warne did well in Aus and SA unlike say Harbhajan.

Swann was talking specifically of English domestic cricket and the number of slow bowlers coming through who appear not to put revs on the ball or have much in the way of flight or guile. In pitches that often aren't conducive to spin bowling you can't simply put the ball on a length and hope for the pitch to do the rest, even if you don't have huge long, dextorous fingers putting the maximum you can on the ball. This will help insert drift and dip that can do much to deceive a batsman as turn itself, even if you can't spin it as much as Swann.

a team need wickets not swing and to stop the runs

Great article, points out to a very serious issue in conntemporary cricket. I dont agree with swann, a spinner's job is to slow things down. You can do that with both spin and guile, or even better both. Only a few pitches in the world today offer excellent spin conditions, so lettin' it rip might not neccessarily work. An excellent example is Shakib ul Hassan, who gets more wickwts with arm balls, not rippers. The same thing can be said about Kumble, Yusuf Pathan. Though Shane warne can turn that red cherry a long way, even he knew when to reduce the spin.
There are many ways for a spin bowler to get wickets- flight, guile, variation, not just big rippers. If you can spin, well good for you!
A word to Greame Swann: Just because you can manage to turn the ball a long way, it dosent mean that others should follow suit. Look at your world cup record and then we'll talk.

It is a little more subtle that that. Swann along with Panesar could not defend a 387 run 4 innings target on the last day (and a bit) at Chennai recently. He had the runs to play with and a worn wicket to boot. The highest fourth innings target chased successfully (in India) was short of 250. (230 to 240 I think). Of course he ran into a rampaging Sehwag - ultimately the man of the match. The point is that "ripping" of the ball or just clever bowling, has both its strengths and weaknesses. Murali or Warne had a tough time in India as well. This does not discredit any of these bowlers. Maybe in places like India, you need two spinners, one in each category.

Good article, and some really interesting comments as well. As the legendary Yorkshire & England left-arm slow bowler Wilfred Rhodes once pointed out - it doesn't matter if the ball's actually turning, it's making the batsman think it is.
Guile, accuracy and variation (in flight, pitch, and delivery) are all more important than being a big turner of the ball.

I have to say though, Dan Vettori did used to give it a decent rip in his younger days before having to change his action due to a serious back issue. Lessening the degree of spinal rotation has meant he can't bowl like he used to, so variations in pace and flight have become his biggest weapons (alongside his cricketing brain).

I can only guess but to me what Swann was refering to were spinners who try to bowl darts rather than bowls...Spinners trying to bowl yorker lenght.Anil Kmumble,Vettori,Afridi,Benn or Youraj none of them bowl darts they spin the ball...though not as much as Swann but the aim is similar to get the batsman out rather than trying to prevent him from hiting the ball long.

Amazing article, its absolutely true.Spinners who bowl straight have much chance of getting the batsman out LBW ,spinners who turn the ball a mile ,with the latest technologies like UDRS find it difficult to get the batsman out by LBW.

I am quite agree with the article. In shorter format of game spinner played the vital role. Instead of turning the ball a lot, making the line & length perfect. Particularly the finger spinners are very much success not even the strong sites but also the week sites like razak of bangladesh, ray price of zimbawe. They are very much success in shorter format. But in test cricket it needs to be turn the bowl a lot otherwise it is difficult to take the wicket. That's why the legend shane warne & muthia muralidharan are successive leading wicket taker in test cricket.

Even i am agree, but taking wickets is important than sping a ball. Here spiners(Any bowler) job is to get out the batsmen when team required and make sure your job is done, i think thats the reason Kumble is there in the Legnedry list...

Unfortunately, you have missed a really crucial distinction - that between spin and turn. Anil Kumble may not have consistently turned the ball a long way, but he sure spun it. How else do you think he mixed up his flight if not for varying backspin, topspin and sidespin? To suggest that Kumble was just a slow bowler with no variation and no ability to spin the ball is both an insult and a misrepresentation of the truth. The same applies to Afridi - now there is a guy who gets a lot of revs on the ball in various directions.

Secondly, if Swann is talking about "the first class game", what has efficacy in T20s got to do with it? You realise the short format doesn't count as "first class", yeah?

So all in all a decent effort at an article, but fatally undermined by your misunderstanding of the terminology.